Basic Impetus

[projektus]

salut les inconditionnels/experts de Basic Impetus


après une partie hier soir, nous avons rencontré quelques points "obscurs".

"que peut faire une unité qui est dans la zone de contrôle d'un ennemi totalement sur son flanc ?"

pivoter pour faire face ? mais alors, elle sort de la zdc !

reculer ? elle n'a pas le droit dans la version anglaise ! (Il paraît que oui dans la version française !?) Mais comme les troupes légères peuvent se déplacer en crabe, l'unité qui était sur son flanc le sera encore au prochain tour, et devra encore reculer jusqu'à sortir de la table...

pivoter sur place pour faire face et espérer combattre ? je crois que c'est un mouvement impossible...

bref, j'ai des doutes...

merci d'avance,
laurent

[belisix]

euuh je ne suis pas "expert" en BI mais à la re-lecture des règles il me semble que dans ton cas (une unité d'infanterie lourde dont le flanc est dans la ZDC d'une unité légère) il y ait seulement 2 mouvements possibles :

point 5.5 : se tourner vers l'unité qui exerce la zdc
errata point 5.3 : mouvement vers l'arrière (ce point est en effet peut être déjà corrigé dans la règle française, je ne l'ai pas sous les yeux.), sauf si en désordre (exception pour les légers).

c'est sur que si l'unité prenant de flanc est du léger, la situation est un peu délicate car elle pourra toujours se remettre sur le flanc.

ça me semble assez réaliste de la nuisance que peuvent apporter des troupes légères en bonne position, il te faut aussi du léger ou de la cav. pour nettoyer tout ça...

Maintenant est ce que des tirailleurs sur le flanc étaient suffisament impressionnant pour empécher une phalange de vétéran argyraspide d'avancer ? peut être , je sais pas ...A mon avis la nuisance est très limitée si l'unité légère n'a plus de munitions et tant qu'elle ne vient pas au contact. Peut être (house rule) qu'une unité worn Skirmisher ne devrait plus avoir de ZDC ?

[Padpt]

Sachant que la plupart des légers à BI ne peuvent pas attaquer (Impétuosité de 0) ils ne sont génants que par leur tirs.

[dadiepiombo]

sorry for the English. I can understand a little the French language and I'm not sure to have understand correclty what you have written, but I try to answer.

when you are under the enemy ZC you have 3 options
1) Stay as you are
2) Move backwards
3) Move towards the enemy that exercises the ZC

If Disorder only CL and F can move backwards, other will have to re-order first.

No matter of what kind of Unit exercises the ZC.

As for S they usually cannot contact you (that in some rules can be devasting if on flank) but can inhibite yor advance. You have to use your S or other troops to protect your flank.

[dadiepiombo]

of course this is a simplified use of ZC, as BI is simples set
In Impetus it works differently.
If you move inside a ZC (unless some exceptions) the Units that exercise the ZC simply can react by shooting or charging, like it was.

[projektus]

Padpt
Sachant que la plupart des légers à BI ne peuvent pas attaquer (Impétuosité de 0) ils ne sont génants que par leur tirs.

ils sont aussi gênants par leur zone de contrôle et c'est bien là le problème ! (voir plus haut)

dadiepiombo
when you are under the enemy ZC you have 3 options
....
3) Move towards the enemy that exercises the ZC

le problème est que l'unité est sur le flanc.
Les options possibles m'autorisent à rester sur place (ok), à reculer (ok) et à avancer vers l'ennemi (??)

ça voudrait dire que comme l'ennemi est sur mon flanc, la règle autorise mon unité à pivoter SUR PLACE et à CHARGER l'unité sur mon flanc ?

[belisix]

C'est vrai que la règle 5.5 est pas complètement claire, il y a une petite contradiction.

Elle interdit le pivot dans une zone de contrôle et dit que le seul mouvement permis est un mouvement en direction de l'ennemi exerçant le contrôle.

question : le pivot est il permis si c'est pour se diriger vers l'ennemi exerçant une ZDC?

@dadiepiombo : do you confirm that it is possible for a unit to turn towards an ennemi who has a zone of control over that unit ?

[dadiepiombo]

You cannot turn but move towards the enemy if he is in front of you.
Note that in Basic Impetus you may not be aligned with your enemy so if your are under ZC and cannot contact him going straight ahead it is because your enemy is (totally) on your flank.

At the same time if you have another enemy in front and you are under his ZC then you can move to contact him.

So what makes you problem is the case you have an enemy on your flank within 5U (and you are under his ZC) and a frontal enemy that is more distant, more than 5U from you.

This means that you have to deal before with this closest menace.

This will cause more time to advance, by the way you have a uncovered flank.

I know this may sound reductive and some other options are under test and could be included into an updated version of BI that could be released before summer.

One solution (still under test) could be that you can wheel inside a ZC but only to get parallel to the enemy that exercise the ZC.
This rule would be applied only if you are not at the same time within the ZC of a frontal Unit.

Opinions (and translation French ) welcome

[projektus]

Thank you Lorenzo

I love the rules, but this problem about "enemy on the flank" created a lot of questions !

The solution (under test) you propose may be a good solution.

But, what do you think about a phalanx with Skirmishers on its flank ? The phalanx can move backwards (ok) or turn and charge the kirmishers (???) but can't ignore them and follow its move.

The skirmishers are used to desorganise heavy troops (and stop them by the way), not to stop them only by their presence, isn't it ?

What's your opinion ?

laurent

[belisix]

thank you for the answer Lorenzo,

I think this is the good solution I think, it solves the case of a heavy unit being "stuck" by a skirmisher zdc on its flank.

I would limit maybe this possibility to unit in good order (like for the sideway/oblique move) and doing this wheel in a zdc put the unit in disorder.

Christian

[dadiepiombo]

The skirmishers are used to desorganise heavy troops (and stop them by the way), not to stop them only by their presence, isn't it ?

Many set of rules allow S to contact enemy, I prefer they limit to threat.

What you call "their presence" could be also considered as some occasional volley. Not enough to make losses or disorder (they can do so by when they real shoot, as they can do) but enough to distract the advancing Unit that feel unprotected.
And by the way in this case the Pikes are un protected as you should cover their flank with other troops (peltasts for example were perfect for this role).

Imagine the S as the helpers of the "toreador". When the toreador is in difficulties they enter to distract the bull.

With the new emendment the phalanx could turn but I think the players has to think about twise before making such a move. From a tactical point of view I would consider a success if with one S I could change the front of a full phalanx.

Another option, still to test, is that you can ignore the ZC by becoming disordered. And you cannot do that if already disordered.

[projektus]

Many set of rules allow S to contact enemy, I prefer they limit to threat.

yes, me too.

Imagine the S as the helpers of the "toreador". When the toreador is in difficulties they enter to distract the bull

Yes, but in this case, the bull can charge the "helpers of the toreador"

Another option, still to test, is that you can ignore the ZC by becoming disordered. And you cannot do that if already disordered.

this idea is very good because it doesn't change the movement rules.

i think we'll test it during our next game.

thank you Lorenzo

[projektus]

un petit message de publicité pour Basic Impetus :

Les copains et moi joueront à BI le dimanche 30 mars à la convention des IPOs. Ce sera un partie en 28mm avec nos figurines late romains.

les efforts de Lorenzo méritent bien un peu d'encouragements

laurent